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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:21 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Bliss Twp., Michigan
Javalina,

I hear what you're saying. Is this what you're talking about?

Quote:
"Every sailing trip is a unique combination of man, machine and elements. Sometimes you make a mistake and you get away with it. Sometimes you don't. That's why they're called accidents."
(from: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20051219-9999-lz1c19wreck.html )


Like you say, there are too many factors at play to 'guarantee' safety. In particular, we're at the mercy of weather changes out on the water. But we can decide how far to venture from harbor. We can also carefully pick our sailing weather and continually re-evaluate preventive and 'fallback' options if conditions worsen (e.g. reefing, safe harbors & anchorages).

The flip side is that the more you play this 'chess game', especially against a better player, the better you get, right? You learn more by playing against a better player than by always playing it safe.

In the end, I think it's all about how much risk we feel comfortable with and how many factors we want to put into play to make things interesting and fun. Too bad we're always overestimating our skills and wanting to test our limits :wink:

Heck, there are even risks to doing nothing, i.e. sitting on the couch watching TV (obesity, heart disease, brain atrophy, ...). And I think most people underestimate the risks associated with driving cars too.

It takes a special obsessive-compulsive personality to deal with the intricacies of coastal and offshore sailing 8)

_________________
Bliss_Sailor
1991 Catalina 22 wing keel
Sail #15185
"Jib Dance"


Last edited by bliss_sailor on Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:17 am
Posts: 20
I used to figure a likely variation of 45 to 90 degrees either side of the forcast wind direction and a good 10 knots above or below the forcast speed; unless the wind was from the east, when I figured 15 to 20 knots likely meant 15 plus 20. then I would figure how much did I want to deal with the worst case scenario out of that range. Enough times it would be the exact opposite of the forcast, light southeast would turn out to mean northwest and blowing.

I never had an engine that would do more than run for ten minutes to get me through a drawbridge, and even then I made sure to have a fair wind and current (but not too much). Actually a couple times the engine ran pretty good. But you never know.

Looking over marine casualties after the fact is like monday morning quarterbacking, but it can't be just coincidence that there are usually real obvious lapses of seamanship. I guess I'd rather be drowned for an error of judgement than for negligence; but one way or another , "human error" is always a correct answer on a Coast Guard exam.


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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:21 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Bliss Twp., Michigan
Well, I’ve had similar experiences with wind forecasts; sometimes they're not even in the ballpark. But you must admit that weather forecasting – at least of the worst storms – has come a long ways since the heyday of sailing vessels in the 1800s. I think the figure is nearly 5,000 shipwrecks on the Great Lakes. Of course, storms weren't the only reason these sailing vessels went down – ship captains determined to meet tight schedules and ignoring weather warning flags, overloaded and poorly maintained ships, lack of radar, few lighthouses, charts of questionable quality and few deep-water ports of refuge.

Regarding engines ... I must be lucky with my 9.9hp Johnson Sailmaster. It has really only quit on me once – though at a very inopportune time in the Canadian wilderness. Well, it actually did quit another time near the end of a long passage – out of gas – definitely human error! Come to think of it, it ran out of gas the first time too, but it wouldn’t restart. 99% of the time it works like a charm though, and sometimes it had better, since I don't always have 'sail backup'.

You say:
Quote:
“I’d rather be drowned for an error of judgment than for negligence...”.

That’s why I’m single-handing 90% of the time, especially when conditions are dicey or the passage is long and unpredictable. I just don’t want the burden of being responsible for the lives of crew under risky conditions.

Only if the crew are seasoned mariners and well informed of the risks. Like when I took my neighbor out in 9 ft. waves and 30 knot winds under the Mackinac Bridge. His father and uncle were mariners – ship captains on the Great Lakes. And he’d spent a fair share of time on boats, including on the Straits. So he was ‘forewarned’. Still ... we probably shouldn't have made that trip :shock:

And I'll take my sailing guru Lance out any time he wants - we sail together maybe half a dozen times a season. Two experienced skippers aboard the boat always seems much safer, as long as they can agree who the skipper is at any given moment.

So how do you handle crew?

BTW: At 6-7 knot boat speeds I’m not going to do much damage to other vessels, at least not to the freighters or high-speed island ferries that I seem to encounter much more than pleasure boats, and those pleasure boats are generally big cruisers. So for the most part I'm only putting myself at risk while having my fun. And I take plenty of precautions to control that risk too. I definitely want to return to my family after a daysail or passage :D

_________________
Bliss_Sailor
1991 Catalina 22 wing keel
Sail #15185
"Jib Dance"


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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:17 am
Posts: 20
I never had crew. Passengers at times, but never a crew; not in the sence that they were of any help in sailing the boat. I have been crew, always enjoyed that. My own boat I prefer to sail alone. Very few people will sail with me twice; my idea of a daysail is one tide out, one tide back. Twelve hours is too much for my passengers, and I'm just getting started.

I used to think, after sailing alone for a long time, that it would be nice to share the experience with someone. Now I realize that what I liked best about sailing was the solitude. You can't share solitude.

One exception is my daughter Madeleine. She claims she enjoys it despite the hardship (I've nearly frozen her a couple of times on the bay) and she has the good grace not to complain underway. In fact she stays quiet most of the time, and can trim the jib sheet. She's nineteen now and lives on her own.

My son David is five, and the rule about twenty minutes attention span for every year of age seems to fit him. Usually I sail once around the harbor with him and he's ready to be dropped off on the dock. Then I go sailing by myself.


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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:21 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Bliss Twp., Michigan
A typical daysail with my wife and son (8 years old) is a 1 to 1.5 hour broadreach to Mackinac Island. About 1 hour into the sail my son will usually ask "how long until we get there?".

After a few hours on the island they prefer to hang out at the island an extra hour and take the high-speed ferry back while I beat into the prevailing westerlies to return to Mackinaw City. It works out well for everyone, and we get to enjoy the island too - usually riding rental bikes around the 8 mile island perimeter (my son on a 'tag-a-long'). Mackinac Island is very relaxing, because there are no motorized vehicles. In early June, we sail over for the Lilac Festival.

Sometimes they also enjoy the trip to St. Helena Island - mainly for the destination and not the sailing - but only if the wind and waves are ideal. At 8 nm, and generally upwind, that's further than Mackinac Island. We may anchor overnight there sometime; my son does enjoy overnighting on the boat.

Reality tells me that others aren't necessarily as 'gung ho' about the actual sailing as I am. So, like you, I single-hand most of the time.

I do have a childhood buddy who comes up from Ohio every summer to sail with a few of his sons. We sailed the North Channel for a few days in 2007, then Lake Charlevoix last year. In 2009 we'll head over to the Beavers. They like camping too, and there's good wilderness camping there. The trouble with a crew that big is that with camping equipment and food the C22 is overloaded. So a few of them will have to take the car ferry from Charlevoix to Beaver Island, then I'll shuttle them to Garden or High Island. And what will the weather be like when their scheduled vacation arrives? It gets complicated!

_________________
Bliss_Sailor
1991 Catalina 22 wing keel
Sail #15185
"Jib Dance"


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 Post subject: Re: seaworthyness again
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:17 am
Posts: 20
Our big plan for next July involves me sailing the boat over to Acadia National Park, Mt. Desert Island and anchoring somewhere. The wife and son will join me there and we will use the boat as a base camp for hiking the mountain. I'm hoping I can get them to take a day sail with me up Somes Sound, one of America's few fjords. The only other I know is the Hudson River.

They don't want to make a passage, even across the bay.

Spring is coming, the snow is only knee deep in the yard. I am looking forward to seeing how this new boat tows and launches, and of course how she sails. If the whole process involves an amount of labor more suited to a once a year family vacation than to a spur of the moment day sail, then I'll keep her for a winnebago, and make plans to modify my old Oday 17 into something unsinkable/self-rightable.

Either way, sailing season, like prosperity, is right around the corner.


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